latenightleader:

If mom is poor and can't afford housing, by going to a homeless shelter- which I hope is well run and the men and women sleep in seperate areas- she is providing housing for her family.   On another thread we are talking about a new depression, but we are not so far that people are expected to farm off their kids if they can't afford housing. She has been providing full time care for two children by herself for the past 6 months, and recuperating from childbirth.  It sounds like she'll need some help from a charity or the government to continue to care for her kids, and from the fathers. It's my understanding a large percentage of the homeless population is children, they are not taken away from the parents due to poverty. There has to be abuse or neglect to start the process of a temporary removal of a child from a parent. I'm sure you'd agree, we don't want to take children away from parents for economic reasons. 

Thank you Tracy, I agree with you 100%, children should be kept with their mom's. I have been volunteering at a Salvation Army Women's and Children shelter for the last three years. There is now an increased demand for shelter and housing for women and children. Most of these mothers there are victims of domestic violence, but are there for other reasons as well. I volunteer in the kitchen preparing meals, and I also do resumes for the moms, trying to help get them back on their feet when they leave. Mom's in our shelter can stay up to two years.

latenightleader:

If mom is poor and can't afford housing, by going to a homeless shelter- which I hope is well run and the men and women sleep in seperate areas- she is providing housing for her family.   On another thread we are talking about a new depression, but we are not so far that people are expected to farm off their kids if they can't afford housing. She has been providing full time care for two children by herself for the past 6 months, and recuperating from childbirth.  It sounds like she'll need some help from a charity or the government to continue to care for her kids, and from the fathers. It's my understanding a large percentage of the homeless population is children, they are not taken away from the parents due to poverty. There has to be abuse or neglect to start the process of a temporary removal of a child from a parent. I'm sure you'd agree, we don't want to take children away from parents for economic reasons. 

Tracy, I agree with everything you said in your post. I certainly would not want anyone stepping in to take my children away if my family were to fall on such hard times as to not have a place to stay. Shelters seem to be a safer place than living on the street or under a bridge somewhere. I too think the baby should be with his mom. Perhaps she will never be mother of the year, but she has been there from the very first day of his life.

I agree that children should be kept with their mothers as much as is possible . . . but not always.  If children are well cared for (whether they live in homeless shelters or not), not abused, neglected, etc, then of course they should not be taken away from their parents, especially just because of reasons of poverty.  I would submit, however, that many mothers do not take good care of their children.  For whatever reason, they do not put their children first and these children deserve loving, nurturing environments where they are well cared for.  I would also submit that one of the biggest problems with the American foster care system is the amount of support given to moms to step up and take care of their kids even though these women fail again and again to make their kids their first priority.  I do not think that those kids should have to keep returning to their moms just because she is their mom and gave birth to them.

Latte, sounds like a challenging time for your family!  I would definitely agree that you need an attorney, not necessarily to take the baby from its mom, but definitely in order to make sure that custody arrangements are fair for Frank and that he is represented well with regards to his parental rights.  Also, by starting legal dialogue with joint custody rather than full custody, maybe the mom won't be set to fight with you guys as she won't see you as trying to take her baby away.  It sounds like she has a lot of problems and I hope she finds the help she needs.  I can imagine how difficult it is for you guys, knowing that his child is in a less than desirable situation and you could provide better.  Good luck with getting it all sorted out; hopefully, as the dust settles and custody routines become better established this will be an easier situation.

Ariana-we posted at the same time.  Sounds like you have a horrible situation going on in your neighborhood.  I hope that someone can work it out soon.  It's horrible that fathers are so often considered second to mothers, and mothers don't always deserve that priority with the courts.  I too wish there was a change in the mentality in our court system-both foster care and family courts.  What should matter is the best interest of the child-not the parents.  (Funny, this is how it is supposed to be, but unfortunately, in a lot of cases, it just isn't.)

Thanks Jennylyn. Really at my wits end with all of this.  Hate to hijack your thread Latte, just making a point.  Wish I couldn't make the point though in this case LOL!

I know it probably sounds "odd" but I was always raised to just mind your own business, keep your head down and don't start trouble, basically.  We all felt that way for a while, saying "its probably the hormones, I'm sure once she has the baby it will pass." But it hasn't, and the more comfortable she gets around us the more she rips into him infront of us.  Its to the point now where we've made calls, because we have to.  Its abuse and you can tell that kid is suffering, its hard to explain, you just have to be there to see it. Frankly I know that DB and I both get physically like butterflies in the stomach sick when we hear her outside screaming because we're as much at fault for letting it go on this long.  Now that a bunch of us are reaching out to try to get him some help they just say "thank you for the call" and that's it. Its so frustrating, meanwhile this kid is having major damage done to his pysche. Its not too late for him, but I think it will be soon. You can see the hurt and the anger in the way he carries himself and plays.  If they would just come sooner rather than later the baby has a good chance of getting away unscathed. Its so frustrating, I lay awake and cry some nights thinking about it.  And I had to comfort our other neighbor a few days ago because the pyscho mom came storming up to their door yelling she was going to kill him if someone didn't come help her.  She went over and literally held him for 45 minutes while he shook & cried begging her to let him come live with her.   She finally made it back to her house and she was just weeping saying "why did we wait this long, what have I done letting this go on, we should have called DSS months ago."  DB finally got her calmed down. But just...argh!

 Ariana, I was told by a DSW worker to call everytime you see or hear something. It will be written down and at some point someone will finally take notice. Also call police if you feel the child is being threatened, especially if there is physical contact such as the pool thing. Babs

Latte, another thing to consider: if you truly think the baby is being neglected or abused in any way (even if the baby is perfectly healthy), you need to keep records.  Each day you pick the baby up for visitation make notes about how the baby is dressed, smells, looks, etc.  Take pictures if need be.  It's also important to note any and all conversations between dad and mom; he needs to make notes about what time mom says you can pick up or she will drop off the baby so that when/if those things don't happen or they happen late you have a written record of everything.  The best situation for a child, being that both parents are competent and capable, is to spend equal time with each parent.  I wrote a whole paper only a year or two ago about father's rights and how far we are coming to support fathers who genuinely love and care about their children and what they are doing to fight for their rights as dads.  (If you want a copy, pm me.)

I note on my calendar every time DD goes to her grandmother's house and her dad is there.  If I'm remembering clearly, he has never spent more than 12 hours with her in a single year.  The trouble I have is that I know he could be a really great dad if he wanted.  He's very smart, funny, etc. and I think if he would allow himself to bond with her, they would totally dig each other.  I keep the notes b/c you never know what the future is going to bring; DH and I want to live closer to his family where we could own a house, live in a smaller close-knit community, have a good school within walking distance, etc.  While it's unlikely that DD's dad would contest this, it is possible.  (He hasn't lived in our state for 2 years making his grounds to contest very very shakey at best.)

get cps or the chidwelfare program involed or something...

Or lawyer???? Or am I missed understan?

latte4me2day:

then the welfare office can take the baby and put it in state care!!!

Hi! I would call child protective anyway, because if there is a willing RELATIVE to take the baby, they will place it with you 99.9% of the time. I went thru a rough spot about 20 years ago, and my kids stayed with my ex's sister. They would rather the baby be with family. I have friends in this field and I am taking human services courses at school. This is what  have always been taught, so it's worth a shot. Maybe if you let the mother know that you aren't trying to do this to get back at her, only help, she will give in. I understand wanting full custody,  but talking about that right off the bat with her may nto be a good idea. It would put alot of ppl on the defensive. It's all in the way you talk about things. It doesn't sound like her maturity level is very high, so be very careful when talking to her so things aren't made worse.  But honestly I would call cps, tell them situation and that you are willing to take the baby in to help. You can worry about suing after baby is home.  Sorry to ramble, but I have been thru somethiing very similar. Keeping you in my prayers.....