Not sure where to place this as it's really several problems combined.  The shortest version is that years ago, we co-signed (I know, I know, but too late now...) some of dd25's student loans.  She's been doing *okay* on paying them 'til the last year or so - the payment is about $450.00/month.  She's recently had to move back home from a shared apartment as she couldn't keep everything paid on her income - she works a temporary administrative job for the government, but has so far continued to have her job 'renewed', though her absenteeism lately has been abyssmal - she simply 'walks out' if she's having a 'bad day'.

Dd is seeing a counselor for what might eventually be bi-polar II disorder - right now, she's being treated for depression.  She goes shopping when she knows she has overdue bills (never opens her mail) and never unpacks the bags until she's desperate for money, then returns what she can for cash.  She has seen a financial counselor, too, (all free thru work) but only one time and didn't follow up with his suggestions nor return for another session.  I'm having trouble believing that all her problems stem from a disorder - she has had numerous but mild health problems thru the years, and has been looking for a 'diagnosis' for a long time,  I honestly think she would like to lose her job and/or possibly get disability.  She has resented both her having to work and having bills since college and has made that known.  Of course, when I tell her she MUST work and pay her bills in order to live here, she immediately falls apart, telling me how depressed she is, that she's having a panic attacks at work, etc.  If anyone has any info or websites to help me deal with this, that would help.  I admit to being from the pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps-and-get-on-with-it generation and need to know how to approach this.  Everyone here pulls their weight and she has to cooperate or move.  Also, me and dh care for my very elderly parents and his dm.  It requires at least two doctor's appointments per week, plus we do their bill-paying, grocery shopping, etc.  I CANNOT take on anyone else right now, especially a grown child.

Dh is close to retirement - no way can we add $450.00 a month to our budget, but we may have to.  My thought is to take dd to a bank and open an account for the payment amount to be deposited in each month, then be automatically deducted when the loan is due.  An account I can monitor and add to if necessary.  The way I understand it, if the account is kept current for two years, dd can have our name(s) taken off as co-signers and the loan becomes soley her responsibility.  This, of course, will only work if she continues to work.

What's everyone's experience with co-signing, student loans, psychchiatric problems, etc.?  Liz

 

There are several things going on here. I don't intend for input to sound harsh but I've seen this kind of thing before. My own kids discovered where our boundaries were a long time ago. From an outsiders perspective here is what I see.

TizzyLizzy:

My thought is to take dd to a bank and open an account for the payment amount to be deposited in each month, then be automatically deducted when the loan is due.  An account I can monitor and add to if necessary.  The way I understand it, if the account is kept current for two years, dd can have our name(s) taken off as co-signers and the loan becomes soley her responsibility.  This, of course, will only work if she continues to work.

Its a parents first instinct to protect thier children. My guess is that she KNOWS you are always in the background and willing to take a hit if she fails to keep up her end of the deal. The above quote basically shows that you are already trying to solve her problems and prevent further problems. The problem is that she'll never learn how to take life seriously if you don't let her make mistakes and find out how to prevent them.

TizzyLizzy:

 She's recently had to move back home from a shared apartment as she couldn't keep everything paid on her income - she works a temporary administrative job for the government, but has so far continued to have her job 'renewed', though her absenteeism lately has been abyssmal - she simply 'walks out' if she's having a 'bad day'.

TizzyLizzy:

Dd is seeing a counselor for what might eventually be bi-polar II disorder - right now, she's being treated for depression.  She goes shopping when she knows she has overdue bills (never opens her mail) and never unpacks the bags until she's desperate for money, then returns what she can for cash.  She has seen a financial counselor, too, (all free thru work) but only one time and didn't follow up with his suggestions nor return for another session.  I'm having trouble believing that all her problems stem from a disorder - she has had numerous but mild health problems thru the years, and has been looking for a 'diagnosis' for a long time,  I honestly think she would like to lose her job and/or possibly get disability.

She may have some psyche issues OR she's looking for the easy way out. There was a book that came out several years ago called The Peter Pan Syndrome. Its about kids who refuse to grow up and behave in a responsible adult manner. The fact that she has steady job and doesn't appreciate it speaks volumes. This sounds like a maturity issue. The problem is that some people want "an excuse" so they don't have to cope. We have access to a lot of self help and psycho-medical information and its easy for someone to read and mimic symptoms. The fact that she doesn't follow through to help herself could mean she knows that she can't con a trained professional. However she does know how to return items for quick cash.

TizzyLizzy:

I admit to being from the pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps-and-get-on-with-it generation and need to know how to approach this.  Everyone here pulls their weight and she has to cooperate or move.  Also, me and dh care for my very elderly parents and his dm.  It requires at least two doctor's appointments per week, plus we do their bill-paying, grocery shopping, etc.  I CANNOT take on anyone else right now, especially a grown child.

Same here. My approach to raising my kids was to prepare them for adulthood and to make sure they could be self sustaining adults. They were told very early on that Life Wasn't Fair But It Is What You Make It. You and your husband have enough going on. You could not rely on her to do for you, what you and your husband are doing for your parents.

No, not harsh at all and all things I've considered, I'm sorry to say on some of it.  However, it came to a head today and her counselor has sent her to the hospital for evaluation and to work on her meds, so we'll see how well it goes.  It's almost a relief, after watching her mood swings for so long and never knowing what to expect.

She qualifies for the new Family Leave act, so I'd like some background on that, if anyone has it, how this will affect her loans and if there are any options on those and if anyone knows generally what will be done at the hospital, how long her stay might be, etc., I'd appreciate hearing.

Thanks for your info, Toni.  Liz. 

  

A Hospital Social Worker should be able to give you all that information about FMLA and how to apply for student loan deferments. You may have to call the loan company directly and see what documentation is required for deferments. The other part of this is up to her to follow through, get the help she needs and follow the program set out for her. The fact that professionals are involved means you will get some answers whether she does have some mental issues or if this is an act. I hope this works out in your favor. Please be sure to take care of yourself.

Liz,

You and your husband are in my prayers.  I read the DS but rarely post unless it's about something that I've got personal experience with.  I've been through the same thing you're going through now with my daughter.  She went through job after job after college and was sure it was because she was mentally ill.  She did fine while in college but it all started when she graduated.  We had paid for her college education so we didn't have the added burden of student loan problems but I know the other heartache you're going through.

She had received a degree in history which didn't give her a lot of options for good jobs and she had a boyfriend who made her situation even worse.  He was not a good influence for her.  She was hospitalized in the mental health unit twice.She applied for disability which of course she didn't get.  We finally just had to show a lot of tough love and told her she was on her own and she was going to have to face the consequences.  That seemed to make a difference.   She seemed to understand tough love and realized she could be in real trouble if she didn't make a change in her life.  She got a job in a day care center and kept it and went to work regularly.  She broke up with her boyfriend and the best thing that happened was she met the man who is now her husband 

She is now 34 and married with two children.  She went back to school and got her Masters which she paid for herself.  She is now a teaching assistant at the university where she is working on her doctorate.  She's a wonderful wife, mother and daughter and has a beautiful home and a good life.  Sometimes I find it hard to believe what she was like 10 short years ago.

Of course, you have to do what the mental health professionals say to do but I just wanted to give you a little hope.  I'm not the only one who has gone through this situation with a child but I wanted you to know there is a good chance that she'll get better and go on to lead a successful life.  I think some kids just take a little longer to mature than others.

I'm like you in that I felt like I had to work hard, save money and make my life as good as possible.  My mother was a French war bride who had grown up in France and went through WWII.  She never complained but I knew my life was so much better than hers had been and I grew up grateful.  One generation later my daughter seemed to think the world owed her something.  I don't know what happened but I'm glad she turned around.

I'll pray for you everyday.  I know how very difficult your situation is and the pain you and you husband are dealing with.  Even though our kids grow up they are always our kids and we always want the very best for them.  We may have been tough with our daughter but we never ever stopped loving her.  I hope the professionals can help and you have a successful resolution soon.

Take care, Simone

 

 

TizzyLizzy:

Dh is close to retirement - no way can we add $450.00 a month to our budget, but we may have to.  My thought is to take dd to a bank and open an account for the payment amount to be deposited in each month, then be automatically deducted when the loan is due.  An account I can monitor and add to if necessary.  The way I understand it, if the account is kept current for two years, dd can have our name(s) taken off as co-signers and the loan becomes soley her responsibility.  This, of course, will only work if she continues to work.

I've never co-signed for a loan but I do understand how that works - you are on the hook for it until it's paid or you are removed from the loan. Understand that there is little incentive for the lender to agree to removing you from the loan - why would they want to do that?

Your best bet seems to be setting up automatic payments and monitoring that closely - say have the automatic payment made a few days before the due date so if it isn't made because of insufficient funds you have some time to get the payment made on time. If you can in fact get yourself off the loan after two years of good payment history so much the better. If your husband is looking at retirement in a couple of years you don't have time/money to spend on an adult who, for whatever reasons, isn't growing up.

Simone, thank you for the kind words and especially for your prayers - it's encouraging to know that someone who has been through and understands what's going on is praying on your behalf when it is so needed...Liz.

Dear Liz TizzyLizzy,  I hate to be the voice of doom & gloom, but I must say that tough love is nt sufficient to cure true mental illness that si severe.  Medications & in most cases psychotherapy are needed.  You refer to these rightly.  Ii know that when I wsa acutely illll (pre-proper meds), my family's tough love went nowhere with me -- I simply did not have the wherewithal t o   comply.  I tried to hold down a job but kept losing them -- quitting sometimes, beign fired once.  It was many years before I coudl rsume the practice of law.  Just one experience to give you some perspective.  Love in Hiim, Deb

Deborahmichelle:

Ii know that when I wsa acutely illll (pre-proper meds), my family's tough love went nowhere with me -- I simply did not have the wherewithal to   comply. 

Deb and Liz - I understand when you posted your initial concerns, you were accepting feedback from other's experiences. Sometimes its hard to know if what you're dealing with is a real mental illness or someone with a flare for the dramatics. It is extremely hard for us posters and readers to offer advice since we don't know first hand what is going on. While there are many who are legitimately ill, there are those who "behave" that way to manipulate. Unfortunately for me, I've been in both sides of this type of situation.

Deborahmichelle:

Medications & in most cases psychotherapy are needed.

Liz - Even though your daughter has been tentatively diagnosed, you as her support system still have to take a no-nonsense approach about her accepting responsibility for her life. A diagnosis is only the first step and there is a lot of work ahead and she has to be willing to do most of it. You may want to see if there is a support group or website that can help people in your situation. I know you are out straight with other concerns but its important that you take care of yourself as best you can. Deb is a perfect example - that in spite of all her problems she shows the rest of us that it is possible to overcome huge obstacles and reach out to help others.