In macroeconomics, a recession is a decline in a country’s gross domestic product (GDP), or negative real economic growth, for two or more successive quarters of a year. A depression is a recession that lasts longer and has a larger decline in business activity.

 

Are we already in a depression? That is for you to decide. I think most of us think of a depression as being in “hard times” financially with difficulty in getting the goods we “need.” It is nearly impossible to compare what my grandmother would have considered hard times compared to the average person today. There are many who already are experiencing those hard times, and for them, they are already in a “personal depression.”

 

Pat:

In other words, our current "prosperity" is a very recent thing. People feel entitled to anything they want and the manufacturers and builders work at making them want more and more. It's no small wonder that an economy can't sustain this house of cards.

Before I get started, when I use the term "we" I'm not referring to anyone person in particular but people in general in regards to buying habits. Media and advertising play an even bigger role. Its all about image and many people have had their standards set by the media. If the manufacturing and building were done in the USA, things wouldn't be so desperate for so many. But most of OUR manufacturing has gone overseas for a few reasons: cheap labor, fewer environmental restrictions, fewer manufacturing/safety guidelines and bigger profits. If manufacturing had stayed here, we would have paid higher prices at a steady pace and would have been able to gradually adjust. But we've become a country of consumers who got very used to paying LOW prices on just about everything. Not to mention a lot of the stuff that gets manufactured now is plain old junk. We not only spend on big ticket items, we buy way too much little crap ( I include myself in this). And when one cheap thing breaks or wear out, we buy another cheap thing to replace it. Everything is disposable. Some stuff is so cheap that its full of lead and we end up with recalls. When companies like DOW announce two increase in prices due to their rising costs in manufacturing (fuel for production and shipping) the consumers have to pay. This is NOT a flame on DOW, they were up front in announcing the rising costs. Now think of all the other companies who haven't uttered a sound about rising costs. But the advertising goes on and on. As was stated earlier in this thread, a couple of generations have been raised by advertisers and haven't experienced this before and their sense of entitlement and self absorption is about to be shattered. As was stated earlier, people are going to have to decide what is a NEED an what is a WANT. Many people don't bother to pull away from their mindless distractions long enough to connect the dots to see the big picture. I'm the first to admit that I bought into the same stuff as everyone else. When I went back and got a degree, my field of study led me to explore several areas I would have never found on my own. I will now step down off the soap box.

latenightleader:

My dh just moved out of state to work, on Monday.

I think things are changing, no we are not in a depression, but we are looking at some big changes ahead for a lot of people, I think. Ones who are prepared will do fine, others, not so fine.

Tracy, I thought of you immediately when I was posting. Things are tight for you right now and your DH did have to leave the state to work. That is what is making this recession so very real and very close to home. You could give up and say "I quit" but you aren't. You and DH are trying to make it work. It is very real for people and very real in certain parts of the nation. The meat packing plant in my hometown is rumored to close. If that happened, 50% of the town would be unemployed. That is a BAD number--and no other employer in town could absorb all the displaced workers. But if 2500 people in my current city of 250K lost a job, it's only 1%, so not so bad b/c there are many other jobs here. It's when the losses cannot be absorbed anymore and no jobs can be found that makes times scary. Having to send your husband to another state to find a job is one such example of something that occurred very frequently in the 1930s. The question is, are we going to see more of that as certain areas become very depressed/recessed and workers have to move to survive?

My grandma was child #20 of 21.  (Her dad married the nanny/maid after his first wife and 11th child passed.)  She was born right after the Great Depression was over, but in her family b/c it was so large they didn't have oodles of stuff.  She had 3 outfits -- 2 to alternate for school & day-to-day stuff and 1 for church.  She grew up having her basic needs met, though sometimes food was scarce even though they were a farming family.  She was married with four children when her husband left her for another woman.  She raised her 4 children on $100/month; the mortgage took almost half of it ($46/month), but she was determined to keep the house. 

B/c of how she was raised she knew how to garden, how to can and preserve foods, how to stock items when they were on sale, etc.  My mom said that grandma would show them articles in the paper and say, "Look, they say my income with all you kids means we live in poverty."  But they never felt like that.  My mom says they felt like kings b/c breakfast was often 1 scrambled egg, 1 piece of bacon, some coffeecake, and maybe some milk warmed with coffee.  My aunt was very tall and often outgrew her pantsuits (for school) before the year was out, so my grandma would add a piece of printed coordinated fabric to the edge of the jacket and pants cuffs.  At first she was embarrassed by it, but then everyone wanted to know where she got her suits.  My grandma also made the girls their prom dresses.  The kids were provided all the basic necessities, but for any extras they had to save their allowance ($1 each month for each child) or get a job.  She was audited 3 years in a row by the IRS who didn't believe a single mom with 4 kids could live on $1200/year.  A male neighbor, whose wife often looked after the kids, stepped in and basically told the IRS to leave her alone; that she did nothing illegal.

My grandma is 80 years old.  She still has her garden in the backyard -- it's only about 1/2 the size it used to be -- with surrounding fruit trees.  She still works full-time (usually 60 hours a week give or take) doing in-home care for older people who need assistance.  (She calls them her "little old ladies" and I try to tell her she is a "little old lady!"  LOL)  When she was 60 she went back to school to become a nurse's assistant; she told me she dreamed of doing 2 things a child -- being a secretary and being a nurse -- and now she could say she had done both.  I have listened to all my grandma's and mom's stories about growing up and everyone in the family speaks fondly of those times.  I don't think they missed out on anything; I think maybe they had more than what many of us (society) have today.

While I don't wish hard times upon people, maybe there could be some benefits to it.  I agree that our idea of prosperity is very media driven and, honestly, it's quite disgraceful the way they promote so many people on t.v. as having, having, having like it's "normal."  It isn't.

babs:

 WE see a lot of older people on SS that cant make it. They own their own home. The oil company wants $5,000 for oil before July 23rd to prepay. They have too much money ofr fuel asistance or food stamps.Last year people got around $100 for fuel assistance.  A lot of them cant haul wood or buy a pellet stove. Pellet stoves are on backorder until Dec and the pellets are taking at least 4 weeks to get. If you have the cash.This is only July. We used 600 gallon last year with our wood stove. The oil company wanted nerly $3000 now for 600 gallons. A lot of people in New England will be having a personal depression and be depressed. Babs

Living in Louisiana, we obviously don't have this problem. But my in-laws are in Pennsylvania and are always talking about this issue lately. I really feel for those up north that will have to face these prices this winter, especially the elderly. I think it will be a big media issue as the fall approaches.

God bless,

Julie

Sunshinetreva -

I would love to drink a tall glass of sweet tea with your grandmother! She sounds like an amazing women with so much wisom and life experiences to share.

God bless and thank you for sharing!!!!

Julie

I think if we are in a depression than it will look totally different than the previous one for sure. Our value systems, conviences, economy, geographic makeup is much different than before. I agree that in the previous one most people had farms. We now have generations who have never seen live farm animals let alone see a tomato grow...Because of the later introduction to suburbs, we know have roads set up for car travel...I know my block has no sidewalk, so if you're riding a bike, you're gonna have to share the rode...and there is no bus service, so you have to drive.

Because of the way most people are raised, we assume that everything will remain the same and we're in shock when it doesn't. We are raised on restaurants and fast food, and disposable goods and this whole lifestyle that teaches us to spend, buy bigger, buy more, do whatever it takes to have the most stuff and so we're not taught what people used too know when they had to do things themselves...now we hire someone or throw it out and replace it rather than learn the skills it takes to maintain it. We are an instant culture, we have to have it now. We are hungry, there's just a minute away drive to get something pre-made, we want to take a trip, its instant, we put it on credit cards...it doesn't take us a week to travel, it doesn't take us hours to prepare a meal and so this generation is in shock that the world they knew around them is changing and they do not have the skills to adjust.

 I think what was a depression to the last generation will be different than this because the skill level is not the same...we bought into the 50's ideal of the American Dream and the 80's and 90's ideal of materialism and we think we all must have it at whatever cost and now we're dealing with various crisis's from Natural disasters to the economy that is affecting our American Dream and we're devastated by it. While the Depression era taught alot of people to save our generation teaches us to waste. Our depression won't look the same...

leasmom:

I talked to my daughter who is just 11 about going to college. I was an adult when I went back to college and with only a work study income, I relied on Student Loans and Grants for my education. I got a Bachelors Degree but when it was time for me to graduate the jobs had begun to dry up. So, I worked at various other jobs. I never got to use my Degree...{I have a friend who works in a University as a Superviser who is stuck at her job despite having a Masters...she has no choices in her job}...so I talked to my daughter about how she's going to pay for college because federal grants and loans are drying up now...so I can imagine that college will be going back to the way it used to be...only the ones that can afford it will be able to go pretty soon...so I talked to her about getting a trade, working and saving her money and paying to go to be a lawyer....if she still wants to be one when shes grown...the way things are getting for her education, she won't have the same opportunities I had...though still wasn't able to use.

You were smart to teach her this.  Check out this WSJ article.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121623686919059307.html?mod=yhoofront

my DH ministery has our local food bank 4 years ago we would see maybe 26 families a month  three years ago maybe 75 .. Tuesday we did 623 families recession depression , doesnt matter what you call it there alot of people in a bad way ... we do a wonderful Wednesday  Lunch ..we have alot of people that come just for a meal .. My DH and I were at the food bank today cleaning up and we had a call from Social Service we had 7 families on emergency care . 

we have helped over three hundred Families with bills light water gas..

now Manna and Second Harvest are low on food and fuel costs are so high ..  it going to get worse.

 

        

Gayla, we hae experienced the same thing. We feed on Sunday afternoon. In the past, it would be 50 in the winter and 25 in the summer. This winter we went as high as 100 and it has not dropped this summer. We are getting much less from Second Harvest. Hardly any meat. USA commidy food has drop. Last month, we got #10 cans of diced tomatoes. This month grapefruit juice and corn. Before we got 4 or 5 different items. Babs