Babs, saw a sign for the free food as I drove my dd home from the dr. yesterday, in a fairly affluent community.  Walt, I don't mean to burst your bubble, but know you are retired- you have a pension from being a cop that will keep you in a home and food.  My dad has the same philosophy, only it's that we are making more than he did as a social worker, he can't understand why any of his kids have money issues- it's because a starting home is now $170,000 instead of $18,000, and it's the same house, only with 40 years of wear and tear, it's not something grander than our parents and grandparents had, it's the same house!   I live 6 blocks from my parents, it is literally the same house, cost my dad $18,000, if we bought it today, it would be $245,000. Medical costs, gas costs and heating costs are a larger portion, leaving little money for other things.  

I see the lines at the sites for bread and potatoes getting longer every month, and the food shelf emptied of almost everything but cans, macaroni, and bread.  there is very little produce that is pretty old, and sometimes there is two half gallons of milk per household, for a month, and generic margerine, but half the time there is not.  

Walt, there are bread lines, don't be fooled by the media not reporting this.  Ask anyone who has worked,volunteered, or used a nonprofit resource in the last year, the demand is sky-rocketing. 

I agree!!! I have friends who live in a more affluent area and they have to go to the church for food. I have both working middle class and wealthier people living in my community.. I told my daughter last year that I hoped to grow a garden that would provide food so we wouldn't have to choose between a bill and some food and just the security of knowing I have a food supply right outside my door and now chickens, is a relief to me. Even though with the weather so strange I thought that was almost a loss, but everythings doing well now and I feel more control over my environment and food supply.

Jane_b said "The one bright point, I think our children and teens, even twenty-somethings who can't seem to leave home and be productive will have to see things a different way. It will make them more ambitious and productive when the bank of mom and dad goes bust."

Or make them more dependent on government handouts. I think there are a lot of people whose first thought is "How can I get the government to pay for this?" instead of "how can I find a way to do or obtain this on my own?"

Brandy said "People struggled to afford necessities in the depression era. On a whole, our society is complaining of having to cut back on the luxuries we have enjoyed."

Agreed... I've yet to see anyone standing on a street corner trying to sell apples to support his family, or kids leaving home so the rest of the family would have enough to eat. We're a far cry from a serious depression - not to say that it can't happen in the (possibly near) future.

juju_mommy  said "the idea of the American Dream really changed a lot recently. It use to be that the American Dream was to have freedom, to work hard and have it pay off, to have the "access" to a nice home and a nice life (as long as you worked for it), right to an education, etc. But I think the last couple of generations have changed the idea of the American Dream to a sense of entitlement: people feel like they have the right to have a big fancy house, 2 cars, a boat, an RV, etc."

Many of you here are too young to remember the "idyllic" 50's, but when most mothers stayed home to raise children, families only had one car. One TV, if any. One radio. Homes were quite a bit smaller, yet families were bigger. The American Dream was to own your own home - a dream because many never did. Renting a home was much more common than it is today. When couples got married, they had no delusions of being able to live like Mom and Dad without years of work.

In other words, our current "prosperity" is a very recent thing. People feel entitled to anything they want and the manufacturers and builders work at making them want more and more. It's no small wonder that an economy can't sustain this house of cards.

Are we in a depression? Not yet. Will we be? Unless this "correction" is taken seriously and people begin to be more independent, to give up luxuries (which is hard, because they don't recognize them as luxuries), and to live conscious of the impact they have on the economy as well as the earth, yes, we will see another Great Depression. It will be a depression to end all depressions, though, because this time it's global. What happens in America affects the entire world. The "global economy" our leaders have praised will ensure that.

If we pull out of this one, and we might do it yet - America is still America, regardless of how spoiled we've become, I have faith in the basic makeup of our people - IF we pull out of this, there will be a next time. And the next time... we're toast.

Just my not so humble opinion.

Brandy:

I don't believe we are in a depression. People struggled to afford necessities in the depression era. On a whole, our society is complaining of having to cut back on the luxuries we have enjoyed. I dare say most of us here who are frugal and do the money saving self sufficient things still have some luxuries in our lives.

 

 

I agree. 

I do not believe we are in a depression. 

Many are just hearing "NO" to their wants for the first time in their life and are having to finally have to sort wants and needs. 

You NEED food.  You WANT $$$ restaurant each night. 

You NEED clothes.  You WANT $$$ brand.  

 

I really must confess.  I am so enjoying NOT hearing the out of school teenagers ride their motor toys up and down the street this summer.

I need to ask my dad and my older aunt if what is happening now is a depression as they remember it. My dad's two older brothers have both passed. My dad was born in 1934 and my aunt in 1924. My dad does not remember much but my aunt does, that my grandfather had to leave home to find work and my grandmother couldn't afford to feed all 4 kids so the two older kids went to live with grandparents while my dad (baby) and his older brother (age 3) stayed at home, a 2 room house with no running water. My dad slept in a dresser drawer covered with a wet sheet as the drought was so bad that dust storms could kill a baby. This was in central Kansas. My grandfather came up to Nebraska to work (carpenter by trade) for the railroad, building box cars or whatever work he could get. He hitched-hiked so my grandmother could have the one car, and eventually that broke down. Eventually, the family moved to Nebraska and my dad's younger brother and sister were born here, in 1938 and 1941. Six kids in all. The first house was a 3 room house and they couldn't afford to feed everyone. Again, my grandparents sent the oldest 2 back to Kansas to live with grandparents--my aunt and uncle graduated from high school in Kansas-- while the rest of the family lived in Nebraska. This was normal then, or so my aunt said. Lots of kids went to live with better-off relatives. Things did get better after WWII started (but my grandpa was sent off to Alaska for work)--but my dad grew up essentially without his older sister and oldest brother.

As for necessities, I know there was no food, no shoes and no extras of any kind. My dad didn't go to kindergarten b/c he had no shoes and you had to wear shoes to school. My dad reminded me of that everytime I got new shoes growing up. I guess he never had new shoes until he was in high school. He also reminded me of how he never had enough to eat, too many mouths to feed, every time I took more food than I could finish when I was growing up. My dad is a huge saver, money and other things. Not quite a hoarder like DH grandmother was (a different depression-era story on not having enough of anything). Even though he was very young during the depression, I think the after-effect shaped his life.

I guess every situation will be different. I don't think we (DH and I personally) will get to a point where we won't have a home, a car or have to send my children to live with my parents because I can't feed them. I think now, the things DH and I take for granted (electronics, gadgets, entertainment) will be what we have to give up or really cut back on in order to keep our homes, cars, eat well, have warm clothes, etc. I'm sure my grandmother did all she could to keep from sending her 2 oldest away from home but it just got to a point where there was no food. I would do anything to keep my family intact as well.

 

Thanks for sharing that mamasjob. I may be "odd" for my age, but I love hearing my grandparents and great grandparents' stories about "back in the day". It makes me more appreciative of what I have now and helps me to remember that I should always be prepared (mentally and financially) for if things go back to those "good ole days". Personally, I think I would rather that... but I do agree that those times had their hardships.. but it still seems that they were happier times where people focused more on what's really important in life.

Anyways....

your post is a good example: most people today don't have those stories of hardships to keep in the back of their heads. I mean, in school we learned about the Great Depression and such but most kids don't pay attention. Most in my generation don't give a hoot about what our elders have to say or see any reason why we should take the time to learn from their experience and wisdom. Perhaps it's because I'm old fashioned, but I enjoy these "stories". I think that this generation is just so far removed from the hardships of the past that they don't realize how great they have it now. THAT'S the part that scares me with our economy and THAT'S why I said that I wouldn't be suprised if we did head to another depression era. It's not necessarily because we can't pull ourselves back up or that things are that horrible right now, but it's because people these days just have no clue how to downsize, simplify, make do, provide for themselves, etc. As long as we are employed, my husband and I are perfectly capable of obsorbing the increased cost of gas and food by simplifying other areas of our life (whether we like it or not). But if unemployement gets bad in our area, things may get rough. But there is always the option of moving for work. If that isnt an option, then THAT'S when I'll worry.

God bless,

Julie

I am under no delusion that times are very tough for a lot of people. A cousin of mine works at a Ford engine assembly plant and things are not good there. But he is reasonably bright, has been through this before, has prepared, and is in no danger of losing his home.

Three blocks away from me are two very nice homes next to each other that three years ago sold for close to $400k. They are now empty and the grass was cut by the homeowner's association because they've been abandoned. So times are tough for somebody.

We have been working very hard the last few months getting my FIL's house in marketable condition to sell because he's been living beyond his means for years and we just found out about it when his house was three weeks away from a tax-sale auction because he hadn't paid the property taxes. He didn't have the money to. Having been frugal, pessimistic about the economy all our lives, and savers, not spenders, we did have the cash to pay it for him. He will pay us back of that I am sure. Hopefully we can get him into a retirement community we've found that he can afford to remain in.

And I just went back to work (admittedly more from boredom than need) but the extra income will be nice to have, and I do plan on spending what I do spend around in the local economy here. I tend to leave largish tips in restaurants as I'm well aware that waiting tables is not a high-paying job. One of the toys I want (not need) is a new mountain bike and I'll buy it from the local bike shop that just opened last April to support the local economy, which is not all that great here either.

So things are not bright and rosy all over, I know.

But I do think it is a stretch to compare what is happening with the economy now with the 1930s, when 30% of the population was unemployed and people literally starved to death because there was simply not enough food. It must be hard on one's pride to have to ask for food, but at least it is available. Nor are people living in tents because there are no apartments or houses available.

Yes, the economy and lifestyles are going through a change, and I'm certainly not smart enough to predict what those changes will be. But until I see signs in store windows reading "No Help Wanted" instead of "Help Wanted" and two pages of help wanted ads in the local newspaper, I will not believe that we are in a Depression. Okay, most of those help wanted ads are for low paying menial jobs. But they do pay enough to put food on the table and a roof over one's head. The food may be cheap, and the roof might not be in the most desirable neighborhood, but it is there.

Depression? Horsefeathers.

Walt34:

Depression? Horsefeathers.

 

I think you're right, Walt. We're a long way from anything like the Great Depression. Most of us are still enjoying luxuries, a far cry from doing without basic needs. 

 Erika,

My dh just moved out of state to work, on Monday.

I think things are changing, no we are not in a depression, but we are looking at some big changes ahead for a lot of people, I think. Ones who are prepared will do fine, others, not so fine.

 

 WE see a lot of older people on SS that cant make it. They own their own home. The oil company wants $5,000 for oil before July 23rd to prepay. They have too much money ofr fuel asistance or food stamps.Last year people got around $100 for fuel assistance.  A lot of them cant haul wood or buy a pellet stove. Pellet stoves are on backorder until Dec and the pellets are taking at least 4 weeks to get. If you have the cash.This is only July. We used 600 gallon last year with our wood stove. The oil company wanted nerly $3000 now for 600 gallons. A lot of people in New England will be having a personal depression and be depressed. Babs