Dh is thinking now it might be wise to cash his IRA and get food aid.  The IRA is $7,000, we could pay off two credit cards.  We would currently qualify for $570/mo in food stamps, according to a program, and even at the new lower income when dh is working fulltime and I'm working parttime, we would be eligible for at least the next year and a half for over $300/mo.  That's what I've had the last several months for food.

I think it make sense, our income, even if dh gets a job in June or July, has dropped by at least 40%.  There is no way, long term, to maintain this house, unless we take drastic measures like the food aid.  I've been making it work with free food sites, but I can't do these three hour waits when dh is working and I need to meet the busses and work some, too.   

Any thoughts?   We moved into this house and neighborhood and thought we'd do this life with a white collar job, it has literally vanished.  To make it in a new field, that is much lower pay to start for a few years, we need really be willing to look at food stamps for a while, I think.  Options are a pretty bleak fridge, pulling up stakes to relocate-not attractive, or me getting childcare assistance to work a low paying job- which would cost the state much more than food stamps.  I am leaning towards doing it soon.

 

I think you need to do what you can do to survive the best way for your family. If you know that your income will go up in the next couple of years I would go ahead and do it.  You are using the money to pay down other debts. We had to cash in some rrsps to survive too.   You guys are young enough to save retirement in a couple of years.

plus everything is going up. I am wondering what we are going to do when the child tax benefits end. The $100 a mth per kid up to 6 yrs old. DD will end after her birthday in nov.

Tracy, have y'all considered growing your own food?  You and your children could begin a relatively inexpensive hobby with DELICIOUS benefits--ha!  Seriously, the old adage is true:  Give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach him to fish and he will eat for life.  There's nothing wrong with utilizing food stamps, but.....what happens when the food stamps are no longer available?  Gardening is a noble pursuit and can certainly be utilized throughout the rest of life.

While my husband and I were raising a large family, we sought to teach our children SELF-SUFFICIENCY.  They learned to fish, hunt, sew, cook from scratch, raise livestock, garden, can, forage, etc. because, in the case of a large family, it is financially worthwhile!  Encouragement to "look outside the box" and problem-solve using their own talents and hard work has resulted in kids who are going to be assets in ANY type of economy.

Just my opinion, y'all--Miss Paula in Texas

Latenight Leader,

Please do apply for Food Assistance benefits so you can get through this hard spot in your life. That's what they are for. I agree that if you have the capacity you should also grow some food but if you're anything like me, you could all starve before anything comes up from the ground. That is not a solution to your current situation.

Also, I'm not sure where you are but there may be other benefits you can access through receipt of Food Assistance. Here in San Francisco, you can receive vocational training or other employment assistance through the Food Stamps Employment Training activities or you may be eligible for cash assistance, child care, education and training as well as other ancillary help. Ask! All of these benefits are intended to help you get on your feet and back to self-sufficiency. If you are in SF, send me an email and I can try to connect you.

Thank you for your thoughts- unfortunately, Miss Paula, our house is  build on a creek bed- resulting in flooding, a little reactivated river running through our basement every spring, and the soil is sandy and not good for much during our short growing season.  I do plant some things- chives, rhubarb, and this year I'm trying onions. I plant tomato plants  in containers, my mom actually planted and brought over one for me.  Hers did great, mine did poorly. Luckily a friend brought me some, and at our church there is a community garden, I get some produce from church friends. I might try a plot there this year, I don't like to take one if it is full as it is an outreach.

Last year, with the help of food from friends and a few purchases from the farmer's market, I canned pickles, pickled peppers and beans and carrots, made lots of salsa, tried spaghetti sauce, applesauce, apple pie filling, apple jelly, apple syrup,my son made triple berry jam, we froze onions, peppers, rhubarb and rhubarb sauce.  I think I canned half a metal shelf.  I did a lot of trading at the the end of the farmer's market, which I sold baked goods at, scones and muffins for cucumbers, tomatoes, and apples.

So, the food stamps would be temporary, I'm thinking 12-18 months.  I've bought a half share in a community farm and hope to can a whole metal shelf of food this year, doubling my efforts from last year.  The problem is two fold, the debt payments and the daily needs both need to be paid- and I don't see how to make it work on the 40-50%  temporary reduction in pay, during the first year it is almost an internship, with very on-call hours and and greatly reduced pay, then the pay jumps a lot, and dh hopes to move up soon and train to be an engineer moving up from a conductor. The issue is not lack of hard work, or dependency, but a 42 year old provider with 20 years of experience and a salary reflecting that in direct mail, leaving a dying industry and starting at the bottom of a promising field, like an 18 year old, but with the mortage and medical and food bills of a 42 yo with a house in the suburbs, 7 kids, college bills, etc., making a two year commitment to training and internship and tech school, being away from the family for several days at a time, no set schedule to be providing for his family in a way that we can stay in this house and regain financial health. This was the best of several solutions.   Yesterday we also looked at a foreclosed house, very much smaller, but thinking if we could get rid of $80,000 in huse debt it would work.  But we woud be uncomfortable and squshed, it is also a four bedroom, but with about 800 less square feet.  I would also have to give up my family and friend gatherings of 50 plus, a family highlight.  I also joined a multilevel market travel industry thing, hope to make some money there. 

 I know I''ll be canning double the apple pie filling, made 13 quarts last year, gave away 2 or 3, and they were gone in a flash!  Also the baby pickles, salsa, and the pickled carrots were gone fast.

All my kids learn to cook, the 20, 13, 11 yo are good in the kitchen, currently working on the 9 and 6 yo.  They are very helpful kids, like to volunteer, help with Feed My Starving Children, vacation Bible school, helpful at home, although, Miss Paula, your comments remind me it's time to teach the 13 and 11 year old to do the laundry!  My 20 yo started at 11.  

 I say go for food stamps....You have been trying to make it work for months, and doing your best, but it is not working.

This is a tough place to be indeed. Hard working middle class families stuck between a rock and a hard spot. And it sounds like you've been trying to cut back whenever possible. There may be a lot more sacrificing before this is all over. I will say that getting into a smaller house may be a blessing in disguise. When all the kids finally leave the nest, you won't be stuck in a house too big for two. I do question the multi-level market travel decision. With fuel prices so high, money getting tight and everyone else cutting back on travel and vacations, what customers are you expected to target? There is another thread in the General category you may want to read.

We have always been blessed to have lots of "manpower" available.  We could barter/exchange labor-intense work--clothing alterations, haircuts (I'm a licensed hairdresser), tax preparation (my husband is an accountant), lawn care, livestock manure removal (barn cleanup), gardening, etc.---to receive excess food/produce/fruit in return.  In addition, especially in the case of raking leaves and/or manure removal, we were able to utilize those things to improve our own garden plot.  Even clay soil can be greatly improved by adding tilth (leaves, hay, mulch, etc.) and manure and LOTS of them--ha!

We have also raised our own meat: chickens, turkeys, hog, and dairy calf, which we bottle-fed/grain fed until butchering size.  We have two acres, but the animals have been raised on the OTHER acre farthest from our house.  I understand that you may not have much land, but chickens and/or rabbits need very little space and are an easily-managed source of delicious meats.  Again, we have utilized the manure of our livestock as garden fertilizer and used excess garden produce as animal feed.

We have also been blessed that our kids have worked at jobs that allowed them to receive extra"benefits".  During their last years of high school and first years of college, two of my sons worked as deliverymen/installers for a local appliance store.  Because they worked hard and were dependable, their boss would allow them to receive a BIG discount on used appliances.  Consequently, each of my kitchen appliances were purchased used at $100 or less, a great savings for us.  Another of my sons worked at a golf course, which had several trees knocked down during a windstorm.  My son's boss offered to allow him, working on the clock, and his brothers to clean up the wood and keep all of it.  Some of it we kept to use in our fireplace and the rest was sold.  Another one of my sons (yes, I have FOUR) worked in maintenance at the local hospital.  Prior to the holidays, my son worked hanging LOTS of Christmas lights outside at the hospital's facilities.  After the holidays, my son was allowed to keep ALL of the Christmas lights, as they ordered new every year.  Needless to say, during that time, our house was always DECKED-OUT for the holidays--ha!

With the housing market like it is, would y'all be able to sell your present house?  If you could sell your present home in this market, I would suggest purchasing a smaller home.  As to the problem of less space, would your kids be willing to double- and/or triple-up, sharing bedrooms?  Your house is going to get LARGER, as the kids grow and prepare to leave home.  As for family gatherings, could you utilize garage-space or even your yard to handle some of the family overflow?  At present, you must have a very large house to host 50 plus people!

As for college costs, we had two daughters who received full-rides academically/athletically; we didn't have to contribute any money to the cost of their college educations.  One son attended a year on grants, paid for the second year himself, and will receive the rest of his education (two years) courtesy of Uncle Sam after serving four years in the Navy.  Another son worked his way through school to receive his funeral director/mortician's license.  Our third son had his first year paid for, but didn't keep his grades up, so he is presently working his way through college; he's in the second year.  One son-in-law opted for the work/study program and received his degree after working as the volleyball coach's assistant/busdriver/janitor/laundryman--ha!  The rest of our children have either begun work right out of high school or, as adults, are pursuing their college education by financing it themselves.  From elementary school forward, we have told our children, "Here is what we will do to help you receive a college education.  We will allow you to live at home rent-free and we will continue to share what we have--food, laundry privileges, etc.--as long as you are willing to obey the rules of our home.  We encourage you to work hard in high school and seek scholarships/awards based on your academic/athletic excellence.  We encourage you to invest in yourself, either through hard work or your own financial contributions towards YOUR college education."

Hope these tips help, Tracy--Miss Paula in Texas 

 

Dear Miss Paula-

We would have to see if our house would be able to sell- about four houses within two blocks have been on the market for about 2 years.  We have a regular house, two bedrooms down, two in the half story- we have two bedrooms with one person in, the tiny bedroom and our boy's bedroom, and then four girls share the upstairs bigger bedroom and we have us and the one year old in our room.  Only our bedroom has a closet.  The woman who sold it to us had lived here several years alone after raising her family, whe was getting remarried.

It is about 2900 square feet due to a 16 by 25 foot addition, the big room, where we spend most of our time- it is a family room and dining room.  This is where I can put four church tables after we move the furniture and seat 50!   Otherwise it is a normal size house.  It would not be too big for the two of us.  The whole street is one or two retired people.  They are 1950's houses, the galley kitchen, the front room, the two bedrooms and bath.  The upstairs has no ductwork, it is fine for kids, but not really prime housing space. I will enjoy having a space for a desk when the kids are grown up.  

W e live in a suburb, with a suburban lot. No animals allowed. We are also vegetarian. Will rethink the garden-

Thanks for everyone's advice.

Read an interesting article, 300,000 women have gained jobs from November to April, 700,000 men have lost jobs.  Makes me wonder how it's affecting families, I I'm getting to be an older mom, more of my age women have worked, I think more of the younger families are one income.   Woner how many of the job losses were the primary bread winner, vs. a dual income house?   Have read it is harder for a dual income family to restructure after a job loss, in the Two Income Trap.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/JobMarketSlumpIsAGuyThing.aspx 

We'll keep thinking about this.  Thanks for all the tips.

 

 

Dear Tracy LateNightLeader, Before, I said on teh subject of yoru obtaining Food Stamps that the onlly reason not to was if you decided not to cashthe IRA.  (Sorry for the double negative.)  Now that you are cashing out, GO FOR teh Food Stamps!  They are available EXACTLY for the needs of folks like you -- people who are struggling to make ends meet, but have met misfortune.  Especially when you can see that they will only be a temporary need, I encourage you to apply for & accept them.  Yours in Him, Deb