This new thread is from me & latenightleader Tracy.  Is there an income level above which it is easier to tithe?  Although both of us give away everythign we can, little of it is cash, althoguh Tracy does pay school tuition to her Lutheran school.  Does tithing really what-goes-around-comes-around?  Is Norman Vincent Peale right in saying that?  When he & his wife had nothing, his wife talked him into tithing & tehy were greatly blessed.  Any other thoughts? 

 Hello, wow, I have lots of thoughts on this that I'm hesitant to write in the case of offending anyone.  First, I'm a Bible believing Christian. Let me say that I love to give.  My husband and I have faithfully tithed for many years.  Here are the areas where I struggle:  I don't see it solidly mandated in the new Testament.  I wish there was more written about it because I like to know and follow the rules, but there is not.  We are to give and we are to give cheerfully and not out of compulsion.  That is the hard one.  I don't like the give to get idea.  I know that Malachi says to test God in tithing, but I do not want the condition of my heart to be self-centered and that is what it can become for me.   I understand the Scriptures, and I want to trust God, not try to manipulate Him.  I also want to be other centered and other focused. Here is also where I have a hard time.  We as the church are called to care for the poor, the widowed and orphaned.  I know of many people who are so poor and even disabled who as Christians are still trying to tithe (10%).  I see many churches use this to manipulate the people and that makes me sad.  We, as a church, are supposed to be caring for people who are in need, not trying to manipulate them.  To answer your question, is it easier to tithe on more than on less, the answer is YES!  Say you bring home $1,000 per month.  10% is $100, which leaves you $900 to live on.  Now compare that to someone who brings home $5,000 per month and tithes $500, leaving them $4,500 to live on.  Who is giving more?  I mean really GIVING more.  One more thing.  The church we attend is very frugal with their spending habits.  For example. we have outgrown the sanctuary and now meet in the fellowship room, but no mention is made of a large building project; we are simply making due.  I feel good about giving to our church, but each quarter when the report comes out, I see we are over budget.  This tells me that my giving is not needed there, so together, my husband and have made the very difficult decision to give to other places.  Our church is "wealthy" but many are not, so we find trustworthy places who are feeding and caring for the poor and widowed and orphaned, and we give to them.  We see Paul set this trend in the NT, so we feel it was ok to do the same.  All that said, I am just speaking from my heart and where the Lord has brought us in giving.  We are frugal and have not been faced with serious financial struggles, so giving has been easier for us than for many.  It is my hope to not offend others who may be of another opinion, and my prayer that you can see my heart on this subject.

I feel tithing is done in obedience to God.....that said, i don't understand why there was a man in bankuptcy court that tried to explain to the judge why he had $$$ to tithe to church, but was defaulting on his credit obligations. That is just wrong! If your obligations are such that you would possibly default on them by giving the money to charirty, i think God would understand you trying to get your life under control and into good stewardship again.

ladyofthe house,

I agree with the over budget thing. I see our church's savings acct. has $$,$$$. in it. WHY? The money is not designated for any budget item. I feel we should be GIVING it somewhere...increase our missions giving, SOMETHING. But not just sitting there earning interest. That for a business to do, not a church. Yet they'll take up special collections for new organ or sound equipment, pew refinishing, etc etc. We're waiting on leaving until dh can finish the a/c installation he promised to do at no no charge except material wholesale cost.

I am copying my post from Budget Map that started this.  Tracy MIGHT want to do the same thing.  Here goes:

On my annual Social Security income of $12,336, I should be giving $1,234, but I actually onlly give in teh neighborhood of $110 -- more only if I feel secure.  Many Christian financial advisors recommend tithing -- I'm Jewish & we recommend it too, although it is done by Jewish Community Centers & our synagogues basing dues on 10% of annual income.  I am officially unaffiliated, as I don't feel that I have the money to give.  (I attend synagogue regularly, but the JCC isout of my means.)  The Hebrew Scriptures are full of references to giving to the poor, widows, & orphans. 

In ancient days, there were animal sacrifices made, but when the Temple fell to the Romans (the 2nd fall), from then on, cash gifts were & are the center of Jewish faith.  We have commentary on teh Scriptures, volumes upon volumes upon volumes upon volumes, & they are adamant about tithing.  The physician Maimonedes even set forth 13 levels of giving, of which the highest is when the giver & the recipient don't know who the other one is.

I agree with CinnamonHuskies that teh argument of hte bankrupct who tried to get out of his debts by pleading tithing is excreable. 

I regret that I cannot remember the name of the person who wrote at length in this thread.  (II can't go back when writing/posting, so far as I know.)  I'd love to be in dialogue with her/him.

Dear Pat, I have now had the opportunity to reread your post.  But I don't understand whether you were saying that the person like me, totally disabled & lliving on $1,028 a month should be giving more or less percentage-wise than the person who earns $5K a month.  Please clarify as I am nervous about what you said.  Thanks!

Oh Deb, I'm sorry!  I was trying so hard not to make anyone nervous!  My point is that I feel it is much harder to "tithe" when you have a lower income than a higher income.  To attempt to explain better, I will repeat myself (sorry).  If I had $1,000 per month income and tithed $100 it would leave me with $900 per month to live on.  If I had an income of $5,000 per month and tithed $500, it would leave $4,500 per month to live on.  Just to show why I feel that it is MUCH easier to tithe if your income is higher. Let's face it, it's easier to live on  $4,500 than to live on $900!  I'm glad to hear your Jewish perspective, it is very interesting to me.  I feel strongly that the Christian church may have stepped too far from our roots of serving the poor.  If someone is disabled, or poor by other cultural standards, I feel like we who have more should be serving them in some way.  I feel like this is the example set forth in the NT by Paul and the early church.  It pains me to see the church asking the poor, elderly, disabled to give until it hurts (which tithing could do per the above example) when they are the ones (in my opinion) who we should be helping!  I love to give and I wouldn't want to take that privilege from anyone else.  I just don't want to see anyone manipulated.  This whole thought process has been new to me in the past couple of years and it has been hard for me to question it since it has been part of my understanding since I became a Christian about 20 years ago.  It has been a process of searching the Scriptures and trying to find the truth in them.  I love my church, but I want my giving to go where it honors God the most and truly meets needs.  Our last church home (in another state) built a huge gymnasium to entertain their membership.  We tithed faithfully there for 10 years, and never questioned our giving.  We simply wrote a check each week and gave more if there was a need.  After we moved and were without a home church for a long time, we had to really search for where to give our offerings to.  That made us study and learn and apply what we felt God was showing us.  I hope you are less nervous now! 

Deb,

In another thread, you asked me if I recommended tithing - Wow!, it looks like you brought up something that is important to people.

I absolutely recommend "giving" – I believe in it so much that almost all examples in BudgetMap have “Charity” even before “food” (the word "tithing" can have different connotations - a legalistic obligation, a general principal, a mathematical formula, etc - so please allow me to use the word "giving" which I believe is the principal or spirit for tithing).

Why do I believe in it so much?  Charity or giving is just another word for “love” which is the essence of what we are created for. In both the Jewish scriptures, which form the first part of the Christian bible, and the New Testament (the latter part of the Christian bible), the most important command is to love God with all our heart, soul, and strength and the second most important command is to love others as you love yourself – if we do this we’ll fulfill any “tithing” we should do.

I don't believe in a legalistic formula - there is a right answer but it is between you and God. I hope this helps!

 

Yes, yes, yes Pat!  I am not anxoius now.  Part of my disability is an anxiety disorder -- read, that I can be dreadfully sensitive.  I wish that I had read your 1st post more carefully, instead of taking it personally when I saw some "red-letter" words. 

What Tracy & I were talking about in teh original thread is that we both give away of material things everything we can.  To blow my own horn, I this year have given away all of my short-sleeved clothing (due to burns on my arm that I have to keep covered) & all of my kitchen things before I Kosherized the kitchen.  All of this went/is going to the Phillipines, a poor country, via a friend.  It is just cash that is so hard to give.  I am sure from what you say, Pat, that you too give material goods easily, & I commend you for that!

You may be interested in knowing that Jesus was 1st known simply as a Rabbi, & his teachings were nearly identical to those of our Rabbis who wrote the original "volumes upon volumes, etc" that commented on the Jewish Scriptures.  They were all working around 70 CE (Common Era -- AD) & spoke with each other.  That is why Paul the Apostle -- so far as I know, & I could  be wrong -- directed his original efforts towards converting Jews.  To my mind,t he sole difference between our faiths is that you think that the Messiah will have a SECOND coming, & we are still waiting for his FIRST -- since we do not see the liion laying down with the lamb yet! 

The gymnasium that either you or someone else -- my memory is poor, & here again I can't go backwards into the posts above I don't think -- said a church built is like our Jewish Community Centers -- charitably-funded but not helping the poor/widows/orphans.  JCC's almost all have pools & gyms & show films & have claSses, etc.

I would love to keep this discussion going, Pat.  ZThanks again for your posts, Yours in Him, Deb

Dear Bill, Thanks for your post.  Yes, givign is a much-relieving word in place of one-in-ten-tithing.  Thanks for your kind contribution!

PS Maybe you should copy your post into the Budget Map section of the Forum ...?