OK, maybe I'm too new to this site, but most of the stuff I've found is what I'd call 'short term' frugal living stuff.

This isn't exactly a 'rant', but I haven't found the right places to look for stuff that I'm interested in - things that you can do that have a more 'long term' effect, so here's a list of some of the stuff that I've done over the years that has helped me live 'below my means' regardless of my income at the time, and I'd like to hear other ideas, also:

House - energy stuff (yes, most of this assumes that you either 'own' or 'have control' over the place that you live, or have a really great landlord who will help you do things to their property to help conserve energy and $$$!):

* completely removed the 'FHW convector' in the kitchen (circa 1955 house) - since the advent of 'frost free refrigerators' and all the waste heat they produce, to say nothing of the heat produced by cooking, I haven't seen a 'cold' kitchen in a modern house in years. We replaced the (partially in-wall) convectors with baseboard in the living room, dining room, and bathroom, and at the same time we had the heating system divided up into two zones by putting the living room and dining room baseboard on a separate zone. (The house is a small - 1,000 sq. ft. single story ranch - so most people think what's the big deal?, but even though we have set-back thermostats, I'd rather keep the bedroom(s) and bathroom a little warmer at night and in the morning before we leave for the day, than the living room, dining room and kitchen need to be, and it has saved a whole lot of $$$ over the past 15 or so years).

* had insulation blown into exterior walls, and in-between lower level garage (ceiling) and heated main level (floor), and installed 'foil-backed foam board' in backs of remaining 'convectors' in bedrooms (see above) and made a panel to cover over glass doors on fireplace when not in use

* installed a fireplace insert which has a fan in it to make the heat from the (more 'decorative' than well-designed) fireplace actually come into the house when the fireplace is in use

* installed foam insulation under cover plates on all electrical switch and outlets

* added insulation to attic 'floor'

* had a 'whole house' fan and soffit vents installed (also known by some as an 'attic' fan)

* had ceiling fixture electrical boxes installed in the living room and bedrooms, and had ceiling fans and light fixtures installed there and in the kitchen, also

* replaced original 'wood laminate' front door with a 'thermal' fiberglass 'that looks like wood' front door - with no windows for maximum insulation value (but it does have a large 'peep hole' for security)

* purchased and installed 'inexpensive' thermal lined drapes and 'traverse rods' in every room, except bathroom and kitchen (~ $40/window - $20/drapes, $20 for rods - in the early 1980's).

* purchased insulating 'honeycomb' blinds for a number of windows that we didn't expect to be able to replace for a number of years - including a 'miserable' (original to the house) north-facing single pane living room 'picture window' with 2 side sash windows - for a total of 8'!  (It has since been replaced by a 6' triple unit (3 x 2' windows) 'low-E' double glazed casement window - with 2/3 ventilation and 2' less glass [which will always be less 'insulating' than an 'insulated' wall] that wasn't really serving any useful purpose.)

* installed weatherstripping on doors and windows wherever possible, and installed "Windjammer" ('removable' translucent spray/caulking gun weatherstripping marketed by Macco Adhesives, the 'Liquid Nail' company) in any places that other solutions wouldn't work well

* installed weatherstripping on the garage door (there's this really neat 'trim' that you nail to the door frame that has weatherstripping attached that 'slides' along the garage door when it opens and closes, that I only discovered a few years ago and what a difference it makes!)

* installed CFL bulbs in fixtures that weren't on dimmers (there are some fluorescent bulbs that can be dimmed, but I don't have any yet)

* installed a (Stanley, but there's others out there) garage door opener in the 1980's that also controls X-10 modules, in combination with an X-10 motion sensor/photoelectric floodlight fixture on the back of the house, and a 'control module' that between them control all sorts of things - lights, 'window' air conditioners, etc.  The feature that I like in particular is that I have the 'security' light(s) set to go on at 'dusk' and off at a time controlled by the timer - and the BIG benefit of that - I never need to reset the 'on' time all year - it 'automatically' changes based upon the sunlight in my back yard every day!

* Planted deciduous trees on the south side, and evergreens on the north side, to help with wind and heat control.  (I wish that I had done more of it years ago, and even though I'm not a 'green thumb', I wish that I had maintained my late father's vegetable garden, even just for the tomatoes.  This year we are talking about doing tomato plants in 'buckets' - It's a start, and it's better than doing nothing.)

* Insulated hot water pipes in 'unheated' basement

* Insulated 'bays' under bathtub (I got tired of stepping into a cold bathtub!)

* emptied and turned off a refrigerator/freezer that wasn't being used

House - water stuff:

* Installed low-flow toilet, low-flow showerhead, and water 'shut off' on shower (makes it easy to maintain temperature while 'soaping up' without wasting a lot of water)

* The next thing I really want to do is get a pair of Fisher and Paykel dish drawers, but that will require redoing the cabinets to accomodate a 'installed' dishwasher.  We have a 'portable' now.  I know someone who has them and she LOVES them, and I've heard that they use so little water per load it is 'freaky'.

* I also want to get an 'external' tankless water heater someday.  We have a tankless coil inside the oil-fired boiler that is original to the house, and it works OK when there are only one or two people in the house, but it could be a lot better.

 OK, that's my list, I'd like to hear ideas from other people now...

Yours in frugality,

Miserly Maxine

Miserly Maxine:

things that you can do that have a more 'long term' effect, 

You have a great list of things you have done to your home. The list reflects your willingness to work, strong character and determination!

I don't quite understand how you define a short term effect of frugality or a long term effect of frugality. I see them complementing each other. For example, if I am able to reduce my weekly food bill, and save that money with interest, then I would have a long term effect of increasing my savings, but a short term effect of reducing my food bill. In addition, if cooking from scratch with quality ingredients is a short term effect from reducing the weekly food bill, the long term effect would be, or at least should be, better health.

My post vanished!

Anyway, we have a 50's house, too.

 We have done mainly safety things- replaced lead tiles with laminate, replaced lead window sills,  replaced roof and ceiling of the addition, put good smoke detectors on every floor, replaced our gravel drive with an asphault one, replaced sidewalk and steps, and some improvements- replaced tile in the upstairs bath and bedrooms with laminate, replaced cracking whirlpool tub with plain one, replaced a candelier, replaced our cooktop and double ovens, replaced a washer wih a free one, and have replaced our dishwasher 2 times, we use it 2-3 times a day, for the past 10 years.  We filled our pond in the back in with little rocks.  We had a drainage area put in the patio that runs down towards the street, added rock close to the house. We ripped carpet off the basement steps and put in treads. We took out a cracking whirlpool and replaced it with a regualr tub.

I would like a tankless water heater, but I thought it was endless hot water, something that would be nice in a house of 9 with one tub/shower.  Right now everyone is nice and showers or bathes quick.  

Maxine, was wondering if all your renovations have paid off, or what are your favorites?  Did the thermal curtains save money to make up their cost?

I would have to say my favorites are the renovation of the family room, that's where we spend ou time, and our cooktop and double ovens, we bought these several years ago with a tax refund, one burner is a professional size one, very hot, and one is a simmer burner.  I like to have parties and use the double ovens a lot.

I think a home is a combination of frugal living and comfort.

imho, I don't think there is any difference between minor/major home improvements for lessened utilitiy costs or cutting the grocery bill in 1/2 or using alternate trasportation a few days a week to save on fuel costs.

They are all lifestyle choices and the long term benefit is present, as is the short term benefit.  When one makes the choices necessary to conserve $$ resources, to live below one's means, then the unused $$ can be saved and invested to build wealth over a lifetime.  So, when I can save $150 monthly on food, and then invest that amount, I have made an immediate short term choice and a long term investment choice.  If I park the car and save $100 monthly in fuel costs, an immediate frugal choice, and that money is then saved, there is also a long term choice taking place.  

They are definitely interdependent choices for a frugal lifestyle.  

AMEN Rolo!

I've already done most of those things the OP listed. If i had a different lifestyle, say a city home, a fulltme job, etc., some of these things could not be part of my life. Everyone has different circumstances. I don't understand why the OP feels we offer mostly short term frugality here. Maybe because I don't list the fireplace insert, wood boiler with water heater, whole house fan, extra insulation, energy efficient appliances, etc etc like I have in my home. Not everyone can do those things. Some frugal things are probably assumed too, like line drying clothing instead of using a dryer.

 Even short term options can get us in a good habit that carries forward long term.

In my years of homeowner experience, the ONE main rule for "long-term" frugality, is to think long and hard about every addition inside or outside the home. Think about how much maintenance - $ and time wise - anything you purchase will require.

You can also look at this two ways. For example, if you buy a really good quality set of furniture (and spend more upfront), you will never have to replace it again (barring a disaster). But if you buy furniture that requires specialty cleaning products and methods that eat up time and money, it may not be so frugal in the long-term. 

I hope I got my idea across...don't want to ramble...but I "JUST THINK" about things before I buy them. This includes household items, as well as cars, clothes, etc.

DH and I have done many of the things Maxine talks about. The reasons (I suspect) that we don't visit about these more often now is that (1) it's getting warmer and many of these are things we discussed back in October when it was getting cold (check previous posts); (2) once we do these things (adding insulation, thermal drapes, new windows, ceiling fans), the project is done and lasts for many years. I would invite Maxine to share how she lives in a daily frugal way. I loved all her ideas and I know most of us have done a lot of the same work on our homes.

The topics we discuss most often here are things that are not totally "short tem" but are actually more "every single day" ideas. Adding insulation was something DH and I did 2 years ago but I can't discuss it every day--no reason to. But I can discuss how I saved gasoline, grocery costs and cut my electricity usage as I *try* to practice those daily. They have become part of my long-term frugality, which for me is saving money and using it wisely.

If I told everyone every day in the Daily Dollar Stretching posts that we replaced some of our windows 3 years ago and finished insulating every ceiling 2 years ago, it doesn't have quite the same impact as my discussions (and the support I get) for saving $30 each week at the grocery store. It's more easily measurable.

 I just thought of something specific to add to my reply above..

About 10 years ago, we were given for free an above-ground swimming pool. We were ecstatic..we knew there would be some expense..but not all of this:

Post support blocks and sand to go under the liner ...$250.00 (We did all the labor)

A new liner, because the one that came with it had been used by children who were not careful about tracking gravel into the pool...$400.00

Our electric bill went up about $40.00 per month during the pool season.

Chemicals and test kits cost at least $300.00 per season.

We had to notify the homeowners insurance provider that we had a pool.. More $ there.

Floats, and other "toys" to make the pool enjoyable. More $

More company coming over to hang out around the pool....much more $$$

Last, but not least, we spent at least 1 or 2 hours a day vacuuming, testing water, adding chemicals, adding or removing water, skimming leaves....add up the value of your time to get this cost.

It was still generous of someone to give us their pool, but we never thought of the costs an maintenance time involved.

Maxine, you have some great ideas. I know that we have done most of those things already as we just went through a major home remodel for the last 3 years. Actually we are just finishing up. We added onto our house enough to triple the usable space from what we had. We insulated as much as possible, could still use some more I think, bought new curtains, looking for a great deal on insulated drapes, etc. Maybe there is more on this kind of subject in the self sufficient living forum, but not sure.

We have had discussions, such as when Pat (community facilitator) was trying to figure out how she was going to cover her big window for the winter. I don't think anything we do to live a frugal life is short termed, so to speak, but I do understand that you are looking for things that save money in energy usage over the long haul. We actually installed a dishwasher because it uses less water and electricity for us. We have a well and pump, so water and electric either way.

We have a new to us, used furnace that is actually much more efficient than our old one, but it was free. Nice huh? I was amazed this year that we went from 624 sq. ft. of living space to approximately 1,800 sq. ft. of living space and the heating bills were actually no more expensive than before we started the remodel. It has to be the furnace and insulation.

Looking forward to your contributions,

Kathy

Thanks to everyone for their posts.  I think that Mama's Job expressed what I was trying to say the best. 

As I stated in my 'preamble', I wondered if it was that I was new to the forum(s) that I hadn't seen the kind of ideas that I was talking about. Mama's Job said to 'check previous posts', which I did again, as I had done before I wrote my OP, and I still had difficulty finding much about energy/water conservation other than people wanting to stack 'untreated' newspapers in their attic and elsewhere (which I've was told by my fire department is a potential fire hazard!), and bubble wrap on windows (which is great for windows that you don't want to look out of). 

I think that part of my challenge is that because there isn't a specific Energy/Water Conservation 'forum', like any large bunch of data, if you don't pick the right 'search string', you won't find stuff that is 'right under your nose'.

Mama's Job also made my point somewhat better than I did (hey, I never claimed to be 'eloquent', just frugal!). 

The actions I was talking about is stuff that mostly you take action 'once', and you reap the benefits 'forever', which I especially like because it has a 'higher payback ratio' (aka 'bang for the buck' - similar to the 'WOW factor' of Tightwad Gazette fame) than things you need to do over and over (just because I'm frugal doesn't mean that I don't like it better when I can continually save money/energy by doing 'nothing', because I 'did something' previously), and yes, you don't really need to 'discuss' it more than once (a year, maybe), BUT, that ONCE was what I was looking for, and I didn't find anywhere in the forums, in any 'concise' manner, anyway.

A couple of items that I left off my previous 'checklist':  In addition to soffit vents that my parents had installed to go with the attic fan in the late 1950's, I had a ridge vent installed on the peak of the roof, and installed single handle faucets in the kitchen, bath and tub (which make it easier to turn the water back on to the same temperature instead of needing to leave it running), and installed a single 'shut off' (what a great invention!) for the hot and cold water for the washing machine, which probably doesn't save any energy or water of itself, but it just makes shutting of the water much easier.

Speaking of which, the washing machine in that house is about 25 years old and it has refused to go into the 'fast spin' cycle the last couple of times that I tried using it, so we've been going to the laundromat for a while now (it's a couple of miles down the street on the way to the supermarkets and where we walk, etc., and for now there's 2 of us (adults), and we don't create a lot of laundry. We can do a couple of loads of clothing, bedding and towels, every two weeks, which costs us about $10 including drying (plus detergent which we buy by the 'bucket' - we don't use any kind of fabric softener or other 'additives'), so the 'payback' of buying a new washing machine is questionable over the short term, and we expect to be 'rearranging households' in the next few years, so a new washer for that house can become someone else's issue).

As to what I do every day to 'save' - most of the same stuff that y'all do, and I plan to elaborate on some of them in a separate post... 

As to what we 'save' on groceries, I can't tell you what we 'save', but I can tell you that we 'spend' about $100 - 150 per month on food for the two of us, and other than a 'bucket' of laundry detergent once a year or so, and a occasional deodorant stick or tube of toothpaste (on sale, with a coupon, etc.), we couldn't think of any non-food item that we have bought at a 'supermarket' in the past couple of years, other than last year for 'Earth Day' a local supermarket chain had GE 'Reveal" CFL light bulbs which were 'free' - OK, so there might have been $0.05 tax on each (on sale for $1.00 less $1.00 coupon, which we had plenty of - we have friends and relatives who give us their 'Sunday paper' coupons each week, and if you 'bought' something like 10 bulbs, you got up to 5 reusable shopping bags - worth $1.00 each - for free, in addition).

We rarely 'eat elsewhere', so that includes pretty much all of the food that both of us consume.  

We are fortunate that we have a 'Chinese supermarket chain' store nearby that has very low prices, especially on fresh produce and tofu, which are the majority of our diets, and also eggs, which we don't use a lot of, are inexpensive there.  Fat free milk, white and whole wheat pita bread, and other produce are purchased a local standalone 'market' nearby.  Refrigerated whole wheat pizza dough ($1.00) comes from Trader Joe's (a Whole Foods competitor).

We rarely buy prepared desserts. We have dessert at our synagogue after Sabbath services twice a week (Friday evenings and Saturday mornings), and sometimes we will make some kind of 'fruit crisp', or I will bake something 'reasonably unhealthy, but fun' - like brownies or cake made from a mix - using applesauce and orange juice, instead of some of the oil and all the water, or 'Hot Fudge Sundae Cake' (which is actually low fat/low cholesterol - we just won't discuss its 'calorie count') for dessert.

On some weeks after one of my exercise classes ($3.00 per class at the local senior center - I'm still a 'pre-senior', but most of their stuff is open to the public on a space available basis. Last week a lot of people were 'on vacation', so there were only 2 of us in class. 'Space available' hasn't been an issue for me in 3 years!) I will occasionally treat myself to a 'Kid's Fribble' (I guess you could call it an ice milk frappe?) at Friendly's for $1.05 including tax, and I have a professional group (IAAP - for administrative professionals) meeting most months that includes my dinner, but that's about it.

While I think of it, one idea that I haven't seen listed previously - Mr. Frugal usually buys our ('commercial') toilet paper (and 'commercial' rolls of paper towels - UGH - I almost never use paper towels, except for some 'spills', but he swears by them!) by the case from 'salvage' places (unless he can find a 'wild' sale at a supermarket or pharmacy chain where he can do at least 'triple play' by buying something: on sale; with a coupon; and usually 'triple' the coupon, and even better if there is a 'rebate' - mail in or '$ coupon toward your next purchase').  Yes, there's usually a few rolls in the toilet paper cases that aren't exactly 'round' any more, etc., but if you 'squish' them in the opposite direction of the 'crunch', they will usually still 'roll', and, it's toilet paper, so who really cares?  Not me or him!)

Yours in frugality,

Miserly Maxine